Traci Rhoades: Abiding in Christ, Even on Shaky Ground
I had a great chat with Traci about how to ensure rhythms of spiritual practices so you can abide in Christ even when life has you on #ShakyGround. We also talk about the importance of loving and ministering to each other as we abide in Jesus Christ.
Episode Discussion Points
As a Christian neighbor sometimes you have no idea how to help others (like when their cows get out) but you go and help anyway.
How Traci grew up in a small town attending church and participating with friends in other churches & kept meeting different people from many religions which broadened her perspective of the body of Christ.
The importance of having a spiritual toolbox of habits and practices for following Jesus at all times—but especially when life gets a little shaky
A personal story of looking for a home for six years with a lot of “why God” moments and finally standing on what would soon be her property in rural Michigan and hearing a quiet voice in her soul whisper, “You’ll heal here.”
How prayer, scripture and silence played a part in her healing
Healing has layers
No one likes to have the bottom drop out of life, but we always seem to appreciate the lessons learned through and after hard times happen
Having "rhythms of spiritual practices" helps not only us but helps us know how to minister to other in their moments of need.
Sometimes the best ministry for those who are struggling is simply the ministry of your presence—just be there
Good prayers/phrases to say in shaky ground moments, “Oh Lord have mercy,” or “Oh Lord draw near.”
What it means to “abide” with Jesus and how we do it on a daily basis
What makes hard situations easier? "As we abide with Christ, He abides with us. And then you don’t ever go through shaky times alone.”
Levels of relationships we can have with Jesus—and how Tracy wants ALL of Jesus she can receive in abundance.
You can share all your emotions with God—and there is usually a Psalm that corresponds to the emotions you are feeling
It is okay to write about the hard things you are experiencing and the emotions you feel
The importance of unity among Christians
“Christ is big enough for all of us."
Favorite Bible Verse
Proverbs 3:5-6—There are so many life truths packed in these two verses.
Trust in the Lord—most of the anxiety and fear in the world come from a lack of trust in God (and in His timing)
Ministering Ideas
if someone loses a loved one—mark the date in your calendar a year out and be sure to pray for, call, text or visit on that day
Turn people to Jesus (not to you or the latest self-help book). We need His presence in those times more than anything else
Be sensitive to how a grieving person is feeling “today” because grief ebbs and flows
Be there to hug them—sometimes no other words are needed
Connect with Traci
Buy her new book, Shaky Ground, at any of the major bookstores or online or at bookshop.org (they give a proceed of the book to a local bookstore)
Website: tracesoffaith.com
check out her section on “All the Churches”
She is also on Facebook, Instagram and her favorite—Twitter
#tamarakanderson #storiesofhopeinhardtimes #podcast #hope #God #hardtimes #shakyground #christian #jesuschrist #abideinChrist #unity #ministering
Transcription
You can find the transcription of today's episode here:
Traci Rhoades 0:04
I remember a very specific car ride where I just was out on my own. And I drove to a park in a nearby town and I just sat and just wet and I said, God, I don't know what you expect me to do. You can you can find this a house tomorrow your God, I know you can and you're not. So what does that mean? Where Where does that leave us? And best case scenario, it leaves us turning to him.
Tamara Anderson 0:39
Welcome to Stories of Hope and Hard Times, the show that explores how people endure and even thrive in difficult times, all with God's help. I'm your host Tamara K Anderson. Join me on a journey to find inspiring stories of hope and wisdom learned in life's hardest moments.
Tamara Anderson 1:04
My guest today is an author, Bible teacher, writer, listener and follower of Jesus who cares deeply about church unity, church history, every one reading God's word and engaging with others. She is the author of the award winning, "Not All Who Wander Spiritually are Lost." Her next offering "Shaky Ground: What to do After the Bottom Drops Out," is written for Christians and the spiritually curious who wonder how a life built on Christ solid ground can make a real difference in our lives and in our communities and churches. A native of Missouri, she now lives with her family of three in southwest Michigan. I am pleased to welcome Traci Rhoades, Traci, are you ready to share your story of hope?
Traci Rhoades 1:51
I am ready. Thank you for having me.
Tamara Anderson 1:53
Oh, it is an honor to have you on the podcast. Now. One of the funny things that's kind of cool that we can break the ice with is you had a really interesting experience shortly after moving to Michigan about some cows that caught out.
Traci Rhoades 2:10
Yes, we I grew up in, in the country in a rural area in Missouri. But we did not have farm animals. And my husband grew up in a small town in Michigan, and was not fun, you know, farmland either. And so when we moved out here 2013 I knew country living I knew dirt roads, and I knew, you know, solitary living and that kind of stuff. But our neighbors did have cows. And so we were getting used to being here. I don't know we, I bet we'd only been here three or four months. And our neighbor called my husband and said my cows have gotten now could you help me round them up? And being neighborly, He was like, Yeah, of course.
Traci Rhoades 3:01
He gets off the phone. And he turns to me, and he goes, I don't know how to do that. But he headed out and since that is kind of figured out how to help a neighbor who has lost their farm animals. We've come a long way. You know,
Tamara Anderson 3:17
That's that's part of being a Christian neighbor, though, right? It is loving and helping and serving. Even if you have no idea what you're doing, right?
Traci Rhoades 3:26
Sometimes you make it up. Yes.
Tamara Anderson 3:29
I love that. Sometimes you make it up. It's so true. You know, and there's also something to be said about following impression. Sometimes I know that sometimes I felt impressed. You need to go visit this person. And I'm like, Okay, God, I don't know why. But it's kind of like you said, sometimes you just make it up. You show up on the front porch. Hi.
Traci Rhoades 3:50
Yeah, yeah.
Tamara Anderson 3:53
But it's part of being part of God's family as he's aware of the needs of all his church. Children, right?
Traci Rhoades 4:00
Absolutely, absolutely!
Tamara Anderson 4:03
My Goodness, so, why don't you just quickly take me through your journey of growing up and how you gained a love of so many different Christian faiths.
Traci Rhoades 4:20
I grew up in a little country church, that was Southern Baptist. And it was a very good church experience. I memorize a lot of Bible verses. I had so many mentors in the faith, that that loved me and loved my entire family. It's very small community. So we all knew one another and we're neighbors in actuality, too. And I also grew up down the road or up the road, depending on which direction you're going from a Methodist Church. And it was another very small country church. I When I write about it, I often call it the church who never left her doors, because they didn't. And I would play in that church. And when they had Vacation Bible School, I would attend there as well. And I was in there Christmas plays and so just a very, idellic churchgoing experience.
Traci Rhoades 5:24
But as I look back, especially as I write about my childhood experience, I realized that it was somewhat limited in what I would allow myself to learn, there were some manmade boxes that existed in that childhood experience. And went off to college, I took a humanities slash philosophy class, that I thought would be dangerous, but actually cracked my world wide open.
Traci Rhoades 5:58
I was best friends in high school, still a very precious family to me with a girl who is devout Catholic. And I moved to St. Louis, which is a town named after a saint. And so all of these different experiences opened me up to a bigger body of Christ. And in 2014, I started writing online. And partnering with that writing, I started reading extensively, and being approached by different authors to read their books, et cetera, it just all kind of grew organically, I guess, together. And I just became ravenous for what for what I was learning and all of the new things and a Christianity that had existed for 1000s and 1000s of years, not just in the Bible that I knew very well. But in church history, and around the world, and in Episcopalian churches and in Lutheran churches, and I have yet to get enough of that.
Traci Rhoades 7:10
I just spend most of my days, having conversations about the wider body of Christ, still continue to read voraciously, have partnered with many different authors, writing about their church experiences and sharing my own. So yeah, it's just become a very sweet spot in my life. And in my heart. I no longer just see Christianity one way I see it lots and lots of ways. And all of those ways. Show me a clearer picture of who Christ was, and is in our lives. So yeah, it's been it's been very exciting, fulfilling, and I love that I get to relay that now in my own writing to readers.
Tamara Anderson 8:00
Yeah. So your new book is called Shaky Ground? Why don't you kind of back up and say, Why you why you called your book by this title.
Traci Rhoades 8:12
Yeah, that the journey to a book title is pretty fun. Because it actually this book actually started out as the idea of having a spiritual toolbox. And within that toolbox, there are different habits, practices, disciplines, they're called different things that help us solidify our faith that help us grow in Christ, that establish this kind of daily and yearly rhythm, to following Jesus. But these things, these practices, and certainly Jesus, don't change, and they're solid. And we can rely on these things to put on the armor of God, if you will, again and again in our lives. And so from that Shaky Ground, What to do After the Bottom Drops Out.
Traci Rhoades 9:12
Yeah, but it gave me a very good focus, you know, spiritual toolbox kind of covered a, a very wide spectrum of the things that we do in life to practice our faith. But this gave me a it honed in that focus on when we really need it. You know, when when the world would leave us spiraling and when we may not have real specific answers.
Traci Rhoades 9:43
Often we're taken by surprise whenever the shaky ground times happen. And so it it softened my heart a lot to how and why these practices were important, not just a checklist, Just you know, not just this is what good Christians do, but they are our lifeline to Jesus. And that's absolutely how I feel about each practice that that I've mentioned and unpack in the book. They have been my own lifeline and those of the godly mentors that I've had along the way as well.
Tamara Anderson 10:22
Yeah, absolutely. Now, I know you shall share several stories in the book. But is there one in particular where you felt you were at a shaky ground, the moment when the grounded perhaps dropped out from under you. And you discovered how important a lifeline these tools are?
Traci Rhoades 10:41
I mentioned that we live out on a piece of property in rural Michigan, we had moved out of the Detroit area, and my husband was working elsewhere. And so we knew we would not keep that house. But it was in the middle of a not good housing market. And so it took us a couple years to sell that house. And we had gone about six and a half years, without living anywhere that was truly our own.
Traci Rhoades 11:15
And so we purchased this piece of land, and kind of been a long, six years, you know, new new place, I'd had a daughter in that time period, and just so many, so many emotions, and so many why God, you know, why isn't your timing here yet, there have been houses we looked at that fell through etcetera. And I remember standing on this very piece of property where I'm giving the interview today. And I was standing on top of a hill that overlooks our pond and some of the other hills of the property. And I felt God whispered to my spirit, you'll heal here. And I can still, I can still very vividly remember and hear that that still voice.
Traci Rhoades 12:06
But then, as I was writing the essay, I realized and I think the line that I say in that essay is healing has layers. Yes. And I realized that not only was I going to heal from those six and a half years, I had also gone through a tragedy, losing my father, in 2006. And within that happening, we also ended up selling family property that had been in our family in Missouri, for three, three generations for generations. And we were the ones who ended up having to sell that for different financial reasons.
Traci Rhoades 12:49
And so I realized that this property, where I am now would also piece together those parts of my heart to that that longed for that childhood home that I no longer had. So that particular essay falls under the category of silence in the book. But I also and I, there's a essay in the book called fluidity. And that was a running theme. I didn't feel like I could write that essay talking about silence without talking about prayer, and the fact that we're in conversation with God. And then also, there was scripture that poured into that process that was part of the healing. And so that that was a neat thing that I saw, as I was writing the book was that realization that as we do these spiritual practices, they often do blend in to one another. Are we being silent before God? Or are we listening to God, which is a form of prayer? Both, you know, so? So yeah, many spiritual practices poured into that process, but that's probably the story that that I felt like opened the book.
Tamara Anderson 14:07
Well, yes, it sure did. And I think we all have moments where we ask those white questions of God, you know, I'm doing my best and things just are not falling into place the way I'd like them to. And those were hard moments to kind of hit some of us hit rock bottom, and I so I love that subtitle of your book What to do when the bottom drops out because so many people hit that rock bottom point and, and they're probably on rock bottom going. How did I end up here? God, I'm trying my best to be true. I'm trying my best to be faithful. And it's interesting that we learn so much at rock bottom. You know, sometimes we have to get that low so that we can build a firm foundation, then, you know, on the rock of Christ, so that that we're stronger. But oh, the process of getting to rock bottom is sure not fun.
Traci Rhoades 15:13
Well, and nobody, you don't want the hard lessons that do teach you a lot. It's unfortunately, you know, the the way that it works. Another essay that I have in the book, I interviewed an individual named Kevin, who had unspeakable things happen to him in his childhood and into his young adult life. And the, our tendency is to want to speak to someone like Kevin and drop off a Bible verse or two, you know, you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you, you know, I mean, you even smile when you say it.
Traci Rhoades 15:54
And interacting with Kevin, we did an interview as well, really taught me and made me examine, how do you best minister to Kevin? How how do you interview him with him? In a way that honors? What happened to him doesn't ignore it, because it happened. And so that was it, you know, the interview itself, kind of dives into some of that. And then I wrote a little bit more beyond what the he was kind enough to let me do use a transcript in in its entirety. For the book, but yeah, we, you know, whether it's us or whether it's somebody else that we love, in the in the bottom drops out? Gosh, we don't know what to do. You know, those were not trained on how to do that. And again, I think that's where these rhythms of spiritual practices can help us respond better ourselves, it can help us respond to others in those situations better. It's just a huge part of making us more Christlike.
Tamara Anderson 17:09
Yes, you're absolutely right. It is. And I think that's the whole process. That's the reason sometimes why we have rock bottom moments is Christ hit rock bottom, too. And so if we truly want to minister like him, sometimes we have to spend a little time in, in a place where we gain more empathy, maybe that's the right word. And that even though our situations may not be exactly spot on, that we can still love, and help and be his hands to others. When they're in those those hard, hard times. Are there any phrases or, or things you've learned as you have ministered to those who are on shaky ground? As you would say,
Traci Rhoades 18:05
The first thing that comes to mind is don't say any phrases at all. And by that, I mean, I call it the ministry of presence. You're sitting with that individual?
Traci Rhoades 18:21
Yeah. A prime example that often comes up in our lives is somebody who loses a loved one and you're like, Well, why do I say, you know, sit with them, check in with them. I often if it's an individual loses their husband, for example, I will mark down in my calendar a year out from the anniversary date, and then send you know, a prayer a text, what have you, that first anniversary as well. So just some intentional checking in without feeling like you have to fix or say the one thing that's going to make grief go away, because that's not how grief works.
Traci Rhoades 19:06
And a phrase that I often will say, especially in those very, very initial moments, when we have learned that the bottom has dropped out, is simply "Lord have mercy," or "Lord drawn near." I very much have a heart for turning people to Jesus, not to me, or not to the latest self help book or not to not even necessarily to Scripture, although often, you know, certain Bible verse will come to mind but even more just that presence of Jesus, you know, just the fact that he promises we're never left alone. You know, he will never leave us or forsake us and we need his presence in those times more than any other time. So those those two phrases I have said, for my myself and and for others, even on a nationwide and worldwide level, when we hear about major catastrophes, whether they be mother nature or by human hand, that's often what I will say out loud. You know, Lord have mercy. Lord draw near.
Tamara Anderson 20:21
I love that I actually when I was reading your book, those were two of the phrases that I wrote down. I'm like, I love that. And that was in your section called make me a better pray-er. Right? There are times when my prayers have been so amazing and awesome. And there's times you know, you get a little lax in them, if things are good, it's so interesting that we have that pattern. But I loved that whole section on on becoming better with our prayers. And I loved that the, you know, you said, exhale and say, Lord, have mercy and then inhale and say, Lord, Jesus draw here, because we need him. And we can say those prayers for others, or like you said, for the nation for the world, we all need him.
Tamara Anderson 21:04
I know, I was at a writer's retreat just this past weekend, and there was a couple of authors who happened to be there who had lost children. And it was interesting to see them sitting side by side and talking. And some of the phrases I wish I could have recorded the conversation Traci. Yeah, because. I know. I was like, Oh, my gosh, I should have like, pulled out my phone and hit record, because it was interesting to hear them talking with each other.
Tamara Anderson 21:33
"I'm so sorry. How are you doing today with that?" You know, just because I thought that was such an interesting thing. And would you like to share with me about your story, feel comfortable. And so they it was it was so sweet to watch the questions that were asked from one to the other. And then the sharing that happened? And of course, tear tears happened as well. But yeah, it was sweet afterwards to go up and just hug and no words were needed. Yeah. Sometimes just being present and giving them a hug and just saying, I love you, Is all the ministry that someone needs as, as they're going through healing.
Tamara Anderson 22:20
And, and I think that was another thing I learned as I watched them, because they were trying to describe to another gentleman at the table, how you go through the stages of grief, but but it still cycles? Yeah, no, it's not like you go through it, and you're done. But you go through it. And you'll still have days where all of a sudden, it's so raw and so hard. And, and so be sensitive, that even though your friend may have lost a spouse, or a child, or someone else that they love, that, that grief and that rawness, them needing Jesus in their lives is going to be necessary, over and over and over and just be sensitive to that, you know, yeah. So it's a tricky thing.
Tamara Anderson 23:13
Now, there was a point in your book that I absolutely loved, where you talked about the word abide.
Tamara Anderson 23:20
We're gonna take a quick break. But when we get back, we'll have more lessons, tips and things you can apply to your life. Stay tuned. In my friends, it's Tamara K Anderson, and I need your help. I am gearing up for a wonderful Christmas season this year. And I need your stories to be part of it. I'm launching a new part on my podcast that I'm going to start doing every holiday season called holiday stories of hope. And so I would love to hear your stories that you and your family have had happened to you during the holidays that have inspired hope, in Christ hope in your family, stories that perhaps you pass down for generations. Or perhaps it's something that's happened to you personally. So if you have a story you would love to share. If you wouldn't mind coming on a zoom call with me and recording it. We can do it in 510 15 minutes. And then I will be sharing that this November and December with my audience so that we can all be inspired by your story of hope. If you're interested, go to my website Tamara KAnderson.com, and go to "contact me" and reach out to me that way and we'll get something set up. Alright guys, thanks for being such great supporters. And I look forward to sharing more of your stories of hope.
Tamara Anderson 24:47
Now, there was a point in your book that I absolutely loved, where you talked about the word abide. I've always loved that word. It's not it's not a word we use very often in our In English today, you know, it's kind of in the scriptures, of course. But why do you think it's important to invite God to abide or to stay or to be with us,
Traci Rhoades 25:14
the start of that essay actually refers to John 15:4. And it says, "Abide in me. And I in you, as the branch is not able to bear fruit of itself, if it may not remain in the vine, so neither you if you do not remain in me." And that's where that word abide kind of got stuck in my head. That John 15 is set right in the middle of the last conversation that Jesus had with his disciples in the upper room, before going to be crucified, and arrested, etc. And I've thought of those few chapters so much over the years, because if you were, if you knew that your death was imminent, but you know, fast approaching, what would be the things that you wanted to say, in your final words, to your most loved individuals, and that word abide really sticks out to me, did a little searching on on what that word means, and it's all it's the things that we, most of us would guess, you know, there's, there's a dwelling, there's almost a fixation.
Traci Rhoades 26:35
You know, I also reference a lot of hymns in the book, as I mentioned, grew up in a little country church, and those are the songs in my heart. But that whole idea of turning your eyes on Jesus fixing your eyes on Jesus, and that essay actually appears towards the very end of the book, because I really want to drive home, the fact that all of these things we talked about, and you don't have to do them all the way I wrote, you don't have to get them just right, again, constantly pushing against this idea of a to do list of a half to.
Traci Rhoades 27:13
But these tried and true things are how we abide, they are the way that we are able to shut out the distracted world, look away from the shaky ground, turn our eyes on the solid ground that is Christ. So our rock. And if we create a habit of doing that on a regular basis, then when the bottom drops out, we know what to do. And we've already been doing it and the routines have already been put in place. What makes the situations go away, that will make them easier.
Traci Rhoades 27:58
And as we abide with Christ, He abides with us. And then you don't ever go through any of those shaky times alone. And that's everything, you know, to know to know in your heart of heart of hearts, that you're not going through alone. He is there. He's always been there, like you referenced earlier, you can look back at your past. For me, I do a lot of looking back at church history. I look back over the scriptures. There's so much evidence of God never never left. We've never been abandoned. And I think that's what we need to know most. When times are shaking.
Tamara Anderson 28:41
Yeah. Well, and and as the world is, I don't know, it seems like the pandemic just hit the fast forward button on the on the signs of the times and we're heading faster than ever towards Jesus coming again, to which I say Come on, hurry it up already, you know. But but the, you know, those prophecies are sometimes not very positive. There's some scary stuff associated with that. And so I like the idea of, of establishing these rhythms or these patterns in our lives now, even more than ever, because it's going to get worse before it gets better. And so we need to have these patterns in our lives and, and be abiding in Christ to help us get through the the natural disasters and the crazy stuff that that we're going through right now in our nation and the world. So that we're ready when he comes, you know,
Traci Rhoades 29:46
We're so conditioned to quick fixes. You know, we we think we could pick up one devotional book and it takes about 30 seconds to read it and we go off with our day. You know, may not talk to God the rest of the day at all, but we're gonna, and I just don't see a abundant life Christianity. You can be a Christian and do that, you know, I'm not I'm not here to debate that. i And I definitely write about this in the book too. I want all of Jesus I can get. I want that full abundant. I love the word abundant. I love the word lavish that he lavishes his love on us. I think there's levels of maturity levels of relationship with Jesus that we can have. And these practices get you closer. Yes, yeah. Yes,
Tamara Anderson 30:45
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Sometimes I look back on my life. And it was those hardest times, those times when I was grieving that my life wasn't going to look like how I thought it would, because my kids were diagnosed on the autism spectrum. And it was so so challenging and hard. I mean, it was physically taxing, it was emotionally taxing. And yet, it was in those moments when I was grieving. And my heart was broken, that I got the closest to him because it was too hard to do on my own.
Tamara Anderson 31:23
And so I remember begging and pleading for him to take those situations away, thought, I know you can feel them, make me make all this go away, get better. And yet, I can now look back on that and see, you know, that was the very thing that helped me learn to abide in Christ that helped me realize that I can do all things through Christ. Not that it made it any easier. But sorry, I'm getting all teary and I don't always get teary on my podcast, but very tender time, right? Where sometimes it's those very hard themes that give us the relationship with God, that we need to get through the rest of our lives.
Traci Rhoades 32:10
We're so much better off when we don't just say I can do all things. That through Christ is probably more important than any other two words. In the end, it's probably not two words in Greek. I don't know. Those any other two words in that whole verse, that that's where we get our strength. And yet there, there are certainly times when we don't even think we have strength for the day.
Tamara Anderson 32:35
Amen.
Traci Rhoades 32:36
You know, I, I don't remember if I included this in the book or not. But in that time period, where we are looking for a home and kind of, you know, in limbo for those six and a half years, I remember a very specific car ride, where I just was out on my own and I drove to a park in a nearby town. And I just sat and just wept. And I said, God, I don't know what you expect me to do. Like, you know, similar to what you mentioned, I thought, Man, if I get this one thing figured out in life, the lesson will be learned. Yeah, you can you can find this a house tomorrow, your God, you can find us the house we want tomorrow. I mean, we just think that I know you can and you're not.
Traci Rhoades 33:26
So what does that mean? Where does that leave us? And best case scenario, it leaves us turning to him. Yeah. Because you may not get the answers, and he may still not work as quickly as you think he should. But you get him. And it's worth it.
Tamara Anderson 33:47
Yeah, it is. And so sometimes I look, I look back on that time now. And I'm thankful for it. I'm thankful I went through that hard time because it gave me the relationship with Jesus that I have needed ever since. And it gave me the knowledge that he was with me. He was with me through the awful decade that it was it seemed of hardly any sleep of cleaning up poof up poop off the carpet because he wouldn't. It was really hard to potty train one of my kids and he was with me when you know, I had one that was constantly running away and running towards traffic. He just had no concept of danger and my stress level was through the roof. And I just remember thinking, I don't think I can do it.
Tamara Anderson 34:40
And the truth is, I wouldn't have been able to do it without him. I sure tried to do it on my own. But But I think that's another thing I learned is that that whole concept and I think you talked about this in the book of us having to be strong enough to do everything on our own. It was never meant to be that way. You out that we are we are not strong enough to go through the challenges of life on our own, and we don't have to, we can lean on God.
Tamara Anderson 35:09
And then God often sends angels into our, into our path in with other people. Sometimes there are people we can't see from the other side. But but God never leaves us alone. He's there with us, he sends people to minister to us. And, and that was what I learned that I had to be humble and, and accept those people into my life. And they became some of my dearest friends. Because they were with me and those just God awful times when?
Traci Rhoades 35:41
And what a gift to look back now. On the other side of it, and we don't, we still don't know why. You know, God made your particular children the way he did. Yeah. But they're beautiful, and they're perfect. And they're exactly as God intended. And you're the mom he intended and your fret, you know, you're able to see him at worse. And him providing in different ways. And yeah, yes. And again, that ties with a bite as well. Yeah. Because if you're not abiding in him, you might still be still in about the fact that life didn't go exactly as you had planned.
Tamara Anderson 36:25
Yeah, I know, that's, that's one of the things that I've noticed is, is often when you hit a situation like that, and you feel like God isn't answering you, that it's almost like you're on a teeter totter, and you tip one of two ways. You either tip towards God, or you took away from him. And I chose to tip toward. And I think because I did, he helped soften my heart, and he helped heal my soul. And that's the way healing goes. But sometimes people get bitter and angry. And I'm not saying I never felt felt anger, because I did. You know, I think it's part of the process some days. But, but there is a choice in there. And even if you've been angry, you can still tip towards God, you know,
Traci Rhoades 37:11
Yes, I was gonna say I, that's such an important point. And in a section on prayer, I really look at that. And specifically in the gift of the Psalms that we have received,
Tamara Anderson 37:25
I loved that section on the gift of the Psalms. Yeah, keep going to talk about, Wow, awesome. And again,
Traci Rhoades 37:33
if I remember the phrase correctly, no matter what emotion you're feeling, there's a song for that. And that's what I unpack that anger. I am stepping into your world a little bit. I assume you directed a lot of that at God.
Tamara Anderson 37:50
Oh, yeah. We had some pretty frank conversations.
Traci Rhoades 37:53
And you're allowed to, and not just you, all of us. And that's what I think is so important to point out at this. At that point in the conversation. We can bring any emotion we have to him, he can take it. He wants to know us that fully and he wants to know that we trust him with every bit of us and all of the emotions that we are feeling. That's not exactly what church society teaches us.
Tamara Anderson 38:25
I know, right?
Traci Rhoades 38:26
All of the time. But if you take a deep dive into those Psalms, that is exactly what David's doing. He lets God have it. It in almost all I did another section that I was really pleased with what I learned. There was a section on lament. And again, another phrase that we don't even use much in our church world. I think they might hear it more in Judaism, etc. What I what I really loved that I learned about lament is that it is bringing these raw emotions to God. But it always ends up praising him. Yes, and that might be a weak praise. The first few years to do it. Yeah.
Traci Rhoades 39:11
But you're still good. But if you take it long enough, and if you read those songs, especially those that are tagged as psalms of lament, he is good. And he's mighty. And he's our healer, and he's our Creator. And make those your mantras whenever you're going through these hard hard times and you're angry and you're hurt and you're confused, shaky ground, right. Those songs can be a great bomb, as well. And
Tamara Anderson 39:42
I'm so glad you dove into those. I have several that are favorites, you know or that have become favorites through the years. I think I've made it personal meaning Yeah, at different times in your life. You'll you'll read something you're like, ah, that is so how I'm feeling right now. have, you know that I feel like I've been abandoned? And I feel like nobody knows where I am. I feel like trying to remember the one that I found a couple years ago. But it like described my experience to a tee. And I'm like, I'm not the only one.
Traci Rhoades 40:20
Yeah, no, David probably went through it too.
Tamara Anderson 40:25
one I got he wrote it down. But I think I think there's a lesson in that too, that it is okay to write down how we're feeling. Because it's part of our journey. You know, they talked about journaling being a very cathartic way to heal sometimes. And and, and as writers we know, that is right, journaling is writing. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. But But what a blessing that David wrote the Psalms so that we can read them now. And, and if you're wondering, should I write those hard times that I go through? Yes. Because maybe someday, one of your ancestors or kids or something will read that and go, Oh, my goodness, I never knew mom felt that way or dad felt that way. And yet, they stayed true to God, even though they felt like they were at rock bottom. You know, so,
Traci Rhoades 41:20
the process to of taking it from your mind your heart to words on paper, help you understand what what you're experiencing and kind of give some clarity, you know, as you're talking and like some things, I'm not gonna let my daughter read, I'm gonna you know, and that's okay, too. It's still something cathartic that happened in the process.
Tamara Anderson 41:45
Yeah, well, and I've done several experiences through the years where, you know, I've, I've written something and burned it or shredded it or ripped it into little pieces. But sometimes it helps just to get it out. Absolutely. Because I think when it sets inside our souls, it can sometimes canker and you need to get it out. And God is good about helping you figure out the way to help you heal in your process.
Tamara Anderson 42:12
You know, I just remembered one. One other thing I'd love for us to just quickly talk about before we close, and that is the idea of the importance of unity. As as followers of Christ, one of the things you you talk about in the book is the danger of making blanket statements about Christian sects, you know, that in I printed it out, because it was so good. You said blanket statements, don't help us get to know each other, get to know one another, leave us open to finding Christ at work among us, and needs to stop. Our witness depends on it, that they all may be one as you, father and me, are in Me and I am in you. They may also be in us so that the world may believe that You have sent me and you kind of italicized that last part that if we are truly Christians, and are pointing to Christ, then we need to stop this bickering amongst ourselves. I don't know, what would you have to say to add to that,
Traci Rhoades 43:16
That's probably my life's work. I kind of I kind of feel like, much of my time on social media is is spent helping us learn to get to know one another, reminding us that that is a good thing. Focusing a whole lot less on how we're different and where another group might have it wrong. And understanding why they believe, you know, a particular way. And I can give you example after example of that. But the the last part of that passage that you read points again, to those final words of Jesus, Jesus has very few words to say before he heads to what he knows will ultimately be his crucifixion. And that's what was on his mind.
Traci Rhoades 44:12
And now I will get teary because like I say it's it. God has laid this on my heart and does not let go. We don't seem to care about that sometimes. We're perfectly content, being Catholic, and having Catholic brothers and sisters, but really were Christian and Catholic. Really were Christian, Methodist, Christian, Quaker, and yeah, that's something I focus on in this book. I focused on it a great deal in the first book as well. And people get a little nervous when you say unity. They also get nervous when you say ecumenical, which is that idea of being Christian, but having In the things that we don't agree on ways that we're different. That's that's a good general basic definition of that word. That's okay to have those conversations too.
Traci Rhoades 45:14
I am not at all saying we need to all figure out a way to agree on one for rebaptism. Good luck. What I am saying is, Christ is bigger, and more than we can imagine, certainly more than we have figured out. And I think he's big enough for all of us. You know, whenever writers release books, sometimes they're like, I'm kind of nervous about my mom reading this part, you know, or whatever.
Traci Rhoades 45:44
I wrote an essay on Mary, in my book, and growing up Southern Baptist, I probably never even just said, Mary, I probably always said just the Mary, Mary, parents of Jesus. And there are other traditions in the body of Christ to view marry with a great deal more significance than what I grew up knowing. And I read a book called HAARP of glory. It's referenced in this essay in the book. It's an Ethiopian Orthodox prayer book. And they introduced me to a Mary That was so much bigger, and truly a vessel that carried God, which she was. And there were times I would I read that prayer book over a period of months is my opening time of prayer each day. And there were times I was like, Whoa, Can I Can I pray that? You know, I mean, there's this, it, I don't know that I will ever understand Mary in quite the same way they do. But they taught me. And I do love to think about Mary carrying the the young human body of Christ in her womb. That changes my heart when I focus on that, in that particular way. And I say in their eye. I don't know if Mary prays for me, if I find out she has, oh, how, how awesome that Mary would think of the say, when think of me, I don't pretend to have all those things figured out. And I don't point to one or two verses and say, Well, I definitely have it figured out. That's not at all my approach anymore.
Traci Rhoades 47:36
In my Christian walk, I just consider how they view Mary, I consider the words that they beautifully wrote down in this prayer book. I consider how Jesus would have thought of His earthly mother. Yeah, like I said, if you don't close your mind to I don't do that. But instead, let your heart reflect on what that might mean, or on what God must have thought of Mary, you can have beautiful thoughts that you're comfortable with. Because you have opened yourself to that humbled yourself to that.
Tamara Anderson 48:26
Yeah, I think It all goes back to, you know, the first two great commandments to love God, and to love your neighbor as yourself. I think if we approach each other with an eye of love, that it solves so many problems, you know, and it helps us be more united, and we can be united in Christ. And all by dint him. There's room for everybody, right?
Traci Rhoades 48:47
Yeah, well, and when I am on social media, I often try to take the approach of who is this person? Because if you don't remember that they're a person who has a history and who has a family, you know, all of the things that make us human, then you're gonna say something rude, and stupid and hurtful, and close your own heart in the process. And I just don't want to live that way.
Tamara Anderson 49:21
Well, you are a great example for all of us. And I'm just thankful that you're willing to stand up and be a voice for love and unity, I think I think there needs to be more of it as the world seems to try to divide us more and more. So thank you for doing that. It's an important job and we need people like you to help remind us that we are all part of the body of Christ. Now, Tracy, has there been a Bible verse that has become particularly meaningful to you as you have navigated your own life journey?
Traci Rhoades 49:56
Well, if I'm pressed to To give a life verse, that's the kind of a common term for it. I usually point to Proverbs three, five and six, trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding, all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. And you could almost take that line for line, and just glean so many Universal Life truths from it. That word trust, you could you could sit there for a while, because I think most of the anxiety and fear confusion that I encounter in life often comes from a lack of trust in who God is, and in his guidance for me. And I'm always careful to say whenever I say that, just because of the the world we live in, not all anxiety, not all fear. You know, I mean, there, there's a plethora of reasons to experience those things. But for me personally, it typically points to a lack of trust in what God is doing in my life, and certainly in his timing. God and I talk a lot about
Tamara Anderson 51:15
Yes, time. Yeah. Wow, that's a big one, right?
Traci Rhoades 51:20
Yeah, but no, that that, versus, I can think of many milestones in my faith journey where that verse has been applicable, and front and center.
Tamara Anderson 51:29
Very, very, very true. So tell us where we can find this new amazing book of yours? And how we can find you on social media?
Traci Rhoades 51:39
Yes, well, the book itself, there is a website called Bookshop.org. And it's, it's been around two or three years now. But what I like about bookshop.org, is that they, when you purchase a book from them, they give you the option of entering your local bookstore, and they get a proceed, oh nine, the cost of the book. Yeah. And so it's the same price as you would get it, you know, at Amazon, or in my books, even on walmart.com, I check. Yeah, you can order it any of the regular places. And you can go in certainly to your own independent bookstore, and request it, they're able to get you know, anything from my publisher. And then personally, you can find me, and I do have a website, I don't write blog posts as regularly as I did in the beginning, but it's all still there.
Traci Rhoades 52:36
I have a specific section that your listeners might be interested in called all the churches, and anything I've ever written about a church I visited, or any, you know, material that is specifically church related will be found there. And that website is traces of faith.com. It's kind of my tag on social media to Facebook and Instagram are traces of they blog, and my absolute favorite Twitter, traces of faith. So, yeah, Twitter's become a playground, if you will, for the church conversations that we have. I've met a number of it's such an interesting mix. It could be somebody who has like their doctorate in the Greek language. And then you know, a mom who just picked their child up from from daycare at 11 and going to put her down for a nap soon. I mean, it's just the greatest mix of individuals. That's what I like about it.
Tamara Anderson 53:38
That is so fun. Oh, and that's actually where I found Traci, I was, I happened to Pano upon her on Twitter. And as I was reading what she was writing, like, I like her. And oh, she's got a new book coming out. And I should read it. And I want to have her on my show. But thank you so much for, for writing this book for putting it into words so that we too can know what rhythms and patterns we can implement to our lives right now. So that when we hit a shaky ground the moment we are abiding in Christ. So thank you for writing that and for sharing it with us. And I will put all those links in the show notes so people can find both you and your book.
Traci Rhoades 54:25
Well, thank you again, for having me and for the work that you do. You know, it takes lots and lots of voices to keep us encouraged in Christ. So thank you.
Tamara Anderson 54:36
Hey, thanks so much for listening to today's show. If you like what you heard, subscribe so you can get your weekly dose of powerful stories of hope. I know there are many of you out there who are going through a hard time and I hope you found useful things that you can apply to your own life in today's podcast. If you'd like to access the show notes of today's show, please visit my Your website stories of hope podcast.com. There you will find a summary of today's show, the transcript and one of my favorite takeaways. You know, if someone kept coming to mind during today's episode, perhaps that means that you should share this episode with them. Maybe there was a story shared or quote, or a scripture verse that they really, really need to hear. So go ahead and share this podcast. May God bless you, especially if you are struggling with hope to carry on and have the strength to keep going. When things get tough. Remember to walk with Christ and He will help you bear the burden. And above all else, remember, God loves you!
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